Comments on: Sleepwalking through ANZAC http://www.justice.net.nz/justwiki/sleepwalking-through-anzac/ Standing Just Where We Are Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:22:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sande Ramage http://www.justice.net.nz/justwiki/sleepwalking-through-anzac/comment-page-1/#comment-14475 Sande Ramage Fri, 29 May 2009 21:22:42 +0000 http://www.justice.net.nz/?p=1775#comment-14475 Good point Jim. Wearing both poppies is a stance taken by a number of people in Britain where the White Poppy campaign has much more purchase than here. Your view about needing to have an armed intervention force is a widespread one but I wonder if we continue to argue that whether we open ourselves up to being constantly at war as we are now. The military media machine would have us believe that our peacekeeping forces are just that and technically that is so because they are not involved in fighting. However, if we lift our eyes beyond what is directly in front of us, it seems to me that New Zealand is actively involved in supporting the war efforts of the major powers. It's like the presumed difference between active and passive euthanasia. Is there really any difference? What if we were to become a nation that was really serious about peace making? Surely our approach would be very different? If that were the case, the defence force review currently mooted would begin at a different place and incorporate our wide views about peace instead of assuming we want or need to continue with the way things have always been. Good point Jim. Wearing both poppies is a stance taken by a number of people in Britain where the White Poppy campaign has much more purchase than here.

Your view about needing to have an armed intervention force is a widespread one but I wonder if we continue to argue that whether we open ourselves up to being constantly at war as we are now. The military media machine would have us believe that our peacekeeping forces are just that and technically that is so because they are not involved in fighting. However, if we lift our eyes beyond what is directly in front of us, it seems to me that New Zealand is actively involved in supporting the war efforts of the major powers. It’s like the presumed difference between active and passive euthanasia. Is there really any difference?

What if we were to become a nation that was really serious about peace making? Surely our approach would be very different? If that were the case, the defence force review currently mooted would begin at a different place and incorporate our wide views about peace instead of assuming we want or need to continue with the way things have always been.

]]> By: JimHunt http://www.justice.net.nz/justwiki/sleepwalking-through-anzac/comment-page-1/#comment-14474 JimHunt Fri, 29 May 2009 06:07:57 +0000 http://www.justice.net.nz/?p=1775#comment-14474 Is it acceptable to wear both a red and a white poppy? In spite of our wish to solve disputes peacefully there are times when we need an arned defence force, just as sometimes the police need to take up weapons. We can do this and still respect those whose conscience prompts them to take up arms. Is it acceptable to wear both a red and a white poppy? In spite of our wish to solve disputes peacefully there are times when we need an arned defence force, just as sometimes the police need to take up weapons. We can do this and still respect those whose conscience prompts them to take up arms.

]]> By: jgoroncy http://www.justice.net.nz/justwiki/sleepwalking-through-anzac/comment-page-1/#comment-14463 jgoroncy Sun, 10 May 2009 22:28:43 +0000 http://www.justice.net.nz/?p=1775#comment-14463 Thanks Jolyon for posting this challenging sermon. It's a gracious piece that echoes many of my own concerns/reactions to ANZAC Day. If you're interested, I recently posted a wee reflection on ANZAC Day entitled <a href="http://cruciality.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/aliens-in-the-church/" rel="nofollow">Aliens in the Church: A Reflection on ANZAC Day, National Flags and the Church as an Alternative Society</a>. Thanks again. Jason Thanks Jolyon for posting this challenging sermon. It’s a gracious piece that echoes many of my own concerns/reactions to ANZAC Day. If you’re interested, I recently posted a wee reflection on ANZAC Day entitled Aliens in the Church: A Reflection on ANZAC Day, National Flags and the Church as an Alternative Society.

Thanks again.

Jason

]]> By: Roy Bowden http://www.justice.net.nz/justwiki/sleepwalking-through-anzac/comment-page-1/#comment-14461 Roy Bowden Sun, 03 May 2009 23:47:50 +0000 http://www.justice.net.nz/?p=1775#comment-14461 At last an ANZAC sermon that goes in behind the reality and acknowledges that victimisation and cruel actions cannot be assigned only to those we called 'enemies'. The territorial imperative leads to extreme actions wherever it operates. Sande Ramage has drawn our attention to the need to preserve a different boundary; that which surrounds safe dialogue, the ability to wait and see and the commitment to equality. It takes courage to stir from the lecturn. I heard Ormond Burton after he had been restored to the Methodist fold. He had not capitulated and had an effect on those of us who were entering the ministry in a way that put others in the shade. Sande reminded me that spiritual leaders like Burton leave a legacy which can be resurrected. I hope she is asked to speak and write in other forums where people pause to wonder why we still protect our shores with battle weary policies and outdated approaches to conflict. -A. Roy Bowden At last an ANZAC sermon that goes in behind the reality and acknowledges that victimisation and cruel actions cannot be assigned only to those we called ‘enemies’. The territorial imperative leads to extreme actions wherever it operates. Sande Ramage has drawn our attention to the need to preserve a different boundary; that which surrounds safe dialogue, the ability to wait and see and the commitment to equality. It takes courage to stir from the lecturn. I heard Ormond Burton after he had been restored to the Methodist fold. He had not capitulated and had an effect on those of us who were entering the ministry in a way that put others in the shade. Sande reminded me that spiritual leaders like Burton leave a legacy which can be resurrected. I hope she is asked to speak and write in other forums where people pause to wonder why we still protect our shores with battle weary policies and outdated approaches to conflict.
-A. Roy Bowden

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